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Post by JWG on Jan 12, 2016 14:52:05 GMT
Sometime ago a colleague of mine took a report of a serious assault where a knife was used in a nightclub. I sought out the officer in the case these are the facts. 0130am Saturday/Sunday, popular club, frequented by all ages, not known for its trouble. If you want a night out this is where you go. Experienced door staff, who have demonstrated their abilities to keep order time and time again. There is no conflict between the door staff and police.
Situation develops between a man and woman, she receives abuse from a stranger, until another man (1), unconnected, steps in to calm situation down. Abusive male draws blade and holds it in a threatening manner.
Doorman (2) sees the confrontation but not the blade and moves in to stop it (calling on other members of his team to help). Abusive male pushes him away and is dragged to the doors by other door staff (3) and ejected. Situation is resolved and hysterical woman is calmed down.
Male (1) realises that he is having trouble moving his right arm, closer examination shows it is cut deep to the bone across the upper forearm. Result surgery and permanent loss of movement in middle and ring finger. Doorman (2) on seeing injury of (1) examines “wetness”, on his chest attributed to sweating. He finds puncture wound from a stab and discovers his breathlessness is not from exertion but a punctured lung. Result hospitalisation.
Doorman (3) aroused to the injuries of the other two, examines his dead leg to find a wound on inside of upper leg with arterial bleeding (very serious). Resulting in major surgery and permanent damage to the leg. The knife man who was ejected from premises disappeared into the night unidentified. On interview male (1) only saw blade after wound had been inflicted and did not feel it until loss of movement drew his attention to it. Male (2) never saw a blade and thought he had been punched, he only discovered his wound after the event. Male (3) received a life threatening wound to his femoral artery that again was not recognised as such in the disturbance, he also did not see a blade.
In my opinion, unless you treat every situation as an armed threat, you do not have much of a chance against a blade. Once a blade is recognised, yes we can make a difference to our chances of survival, the presence of “defence wounds” on victims hands are an indication of this. If a wound is not at once fatal or incapacitating, then we can fight back and raise our chances of survival. However, in my humble opinion, if someone has a knife and the serious intent to use it, you will be cut without realising it. They are not going to reveal their upper hand, just as you are not going to reveal your martial skills.
The best knife defence is to assume that all situations involve a weapon and act accordingly. Tell them straight away that you think they have a knife and will be treating them as such unless they can prove otherwise.
thoughts? comments?
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shona
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Post by shona on Jan 17, 2016 22:14:58 GMT
Very interesting. At first I thought that jumping to such a conclusion has the potential to escalate a situation and cause undue issues for oneself and the person being dealt with. On second thought we as aikidoka have this ability to treat all attacks as though the attacker has a weapon anyway, as the techniques we practice empty handed are also the same when confronted with a tanto or bokken. This is something I would like to look at more in my training to make sure I appreciate at all times that the empty handed techniques I perform take into account the possibility of a weapon.
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Post by daniel on Jan 19, 2016 14:20:28 GMT
I see this on a daily basis sensei. A lot of lads will carry a home made bladed weapon of some kind normally hidden about there person.9 times out 10 we never see them pulled out until it's to late. Most days we expect to be cut if in an incident.
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Post by JWG on Jan 21, 2016 22:33:01 GMT
Aikido teaches one of the key principles in conflict: Ma-Ai (distance and timing). Use of spear/staff, sword, short sword, knife and empty hand. Continued repetition of techniques both armed and unarmed helps us to recognise, appreciate and incorporate distance and its importance in dealing, and surviving, violence.
The adage of assuming everyone is carrying a blade makes sense and to be honest makes very little difference to the way we train. We always treat each weapon as an extension of the hand and in essence our movements remain the same (the hips still turn, we still maximise our maneuverability through the triangle and our power through the square).
Picking up on both Shona’s (i) and Dan’s (ii) comments:
(i) yes it can seem as potentially escalating a situation but in conflict tactics it is easier to reduce/lessen after implementing one at a higher level than the other way round. There is a strong psychological advantage aswell both for yourself (not surprised or shocked) and for your opponent who loses the “advantage”.
(ii) The number of people “carrying” blades (particularly in 16 to 26 year olds) is surprising and equally surprising is the lack of compunction for doing so.
One of the biggest issues that people seem to underestimate is the potential lethality of the blade. There is also is a commonly held view that a person armed with a knife is less dangerous than a person armed with a firearm. The truth is that within their practical ranges both weapons are capable of fatal life stopping wounds.
Here are some statistics gathered from UK and US/Canada Law enforcement:
In the U.K. edged weapon assaults are the most commonly used weapon for killing people and in half the incidents of muggings on men the offender is armed with a sharp instrument
In the U.S. & Canada there is a 1 in 3 chance that if faced with a subject who had an edged weapon, you will be attacked and injured.
• Attacks with edged weapons usually occurred when the vicitm least expected them
• In 1994, out of the 7 murders in Victoria, Canada 6 were committed with knives
• The majority of “street” type people carry some kind of edged weapon be it legal or illegal
• Of subjects stabbed, 30% die from their wounds
• The most popular assault technique utilized by the attacker was found to be the hammer strike – either straight down or diagonally
• The victim tends to squat in an effort to take a path which offers perceived escape
• Many people seldom saw the edged weapon that penetrated their body.
• Knife attacks were found to be exceptionally accurate, to pentrate deeper that some bullets, creating remarkable permanent cavities and rip through numerous organs in one stroke
• In reality, within their respective ranges, knives are superior to firearms as far as lethality is concerned
Also in terms of autopsies involving a bladed/edged weapon.
• Typical death of a stab wound in murder cases is 1 inch to 1.5 inches through the rib cage
• In most edged weapon attacks the victim received multiple knife wounds. The usual cause of death are usually the last few wounds of the overall attack
• Even short bladed knives can penetrate the abdomen by 8-10cm
• 3cm allows penetration of the ribs
• 4cm allows penetration of the heart
• because of the small surface area of a knife, the amount of force per unit area is TONS per square inch
Chilling reading.
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shona
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Post by shona on Jan 21, 2016 22:43:46 GMT
Chilling indeed. The main user group not only fits my peers but also the main demographic of people I tend to encounter through my security work. We tend to be fairly 'lucky' in that there is a much lower level of such crimes in our rural area, however these are on the rise, a stabbing occurring only last weekend. It's important that we are not complacent about the potential threats we face, something we are reminded of through our training. I do feel there should be much tougher consequences for those found carrying knives, any comments in terms of sentencing, fines etc?
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Post by JWG on Jan 21, 2016 23:08:18 GMT
I do feel there should be much tougher consequences for those found carrying knives, any comments in terms of sentencing, fines etc? I am a bit rusty on sentencing but I think that the punishments for being found guilty of possession of an offensive weapon/sharply bladed article can range from fines and up to 4 years in prison.
Aggravating factors for sentencing relate to (I) the actual weapon, (ii) hostility towards a minority individual/group etc, (iii) under influence of drink or drugs and (iv) part of a group.
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Post by Jason. on Jan 23, 2016 13:03:29 GMT
Intresting.
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Post by Jason Thorpe on Jan 29, 2016 13:26:25 GMT
Hello everyone im Jay or affectionately known as Big Jay by most...ive had 15 years experience as a doorman at various venues over the years and i do think that knife crime should be punished severely and to name but one incident where i witnessed a 16 year old boy die in my colleagues arms i think the book should be thrown at these vile beings that carry and use knives and weapons
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Post by JWG on Jan 29, 2016 14:19:11 GMT
im Jay or affectionately known as Big Jay by most... [ Crikey. I thought one big Jay/Jason was too much now we have two! ?
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jay
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Post by jay on Jan 29, 2016 19:39:04 GMT
Its probably me posting both times im a bit of a techno phobe numpty
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shona
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Post by shona on Jan 30, 2016 2:33:20 GMT
Its probably me posting both times im a bit of a techno phobe numpty Nope! We really do have 2 J's/Jason's!! This might get confusing at courses!!
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shona
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Post by shona on Jan 30, 2016 14:17:26 GMT
Is there no way there could be an implementation of licencing for knives as there is for firearms? Make it an offence to own a knife of a certain size etc without a licence, stores having to verify their customers and owners to have a valid reason to posess such a weapon or would it be just too difficult to enforce? After doing a bit of reading and discovering things such as the WASP knife, although not hugely prevelant in the UK, it's a very scary prospect. I think it's crazy that I need a licence to purchase air rifles and pistols from a local hunting shop yet I can get my hands on substantial knives, machetes and the like with no questions asked.
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Post by JWG on Feb 7, 2016 15:27:22 GMT
There are specific offences for being in possession of offensive weapons and bladed articles (blades cutting edge length over 3 inches) but these are in public places and schools. But no registration requirements - unfortunately it just wouldn't be feasible.
here are some more stats ( a little dated but still interesting/relevant):
Out of instruments used to kill, edged weapons are the most common (7 in 20) - Home Office personal violence research study 1989.
in 50% of muggings on men the assailant was armed with a sharp instrument such as a knife or screwdriver - British Crime Survey 1992.
Research by Sergeant Dennis Tueller, Salt Lake City P.D. 1983, showed that a man armed with a knife could close a gap of 21 feet and deliver a fatal thrust in 1.5 seconds on average.
Generally speaking the rule when dealing with the knife is that it is not the skill level of the attacker but rather the desperation or ruthless factor that makes them so dangerous. As well, in a dynamic spontaneous assault involving an edged weapon, you will probably not have the time to assess your attackers skill level.
The best defense against an edged weapon is to not get into one in the first place. This is why controlling the ma-ai is essential. Don't get forced into physical action until you are maximising your ability to be ready, willing and able.
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Post by JWG on Feb 8, 2016 9:43:45 GMT
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